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Post by darksparrow on Apr 6, 2009 9:35:37 GMT -5
Oh man, someone should give the guy an award. (yeah, that's what he needs... a good... award...) Excuse me. *sticks head in bucket of cold water* There, all better. I was starting to scare myself a little. Anyway, ITA about the significance of the statue... The director of the episode is good enough that I believe he'd think about little stuff like that. Usually I wouldn't give ER that much credit, but come on, it's too obvious. Like the ring flashing in every other scene. There's still a lot of things that would have made the episode better, in my opinion, without taking anything from the open-endingness. In the final scene where they're waiting for the ambulances to arrive, and Chuny hands Carter the gown, that's pretty awesome. Now imagine that it was Banfield handing Carter the gown, we'd have at least one question answered (which is, strangely, what bothers me most. I don't like to see him treated like some weirdo who doesn't realize he's not welcome in the ER anymore, which is exactly how she treated him). Or, for example, when Carter talks about his son, I'd love to see Benton's reaction. Because he supposedly doesn't KNOW about it, right? but we don't see any indication that he's surprised by the information, and we don't see any conversation about it later on, and I really want that, for some reason. A simple indication that they're planning to keep in touch would also be good. That's what fanfic is for, right?
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Post by claired80 on Apr 6, 2009 10:01:16 GMT -5
Oh man, someone should give the guy an award. (yeah, that's what he needs... a good... award...) Excuse me. *sticks head in bucket of cold water* There, all better. I was starting to scare myself a little. Lmao!! ;D ITA. Maybe the only purpose was to get Jerry say "Because he is a doctor" . I guess we are supposed to know that by now, Benton knows... He was probably invited to the opening the Joshua Carter Center and must have wondered who Joshua was... I'll take the close hug initiated by Benton as an indication . I missed a little 'emotional' touch about the transplant myself, and not only 'all is well with Carter's plumbing...' I don't know what exactly, but something... Maybe showing that getting a kidneys so quickly was a darn big luck. Or just his reaction when he's told there's a kidney for him (I said it before, I know... I just can't get over the fact that they cut from the transplant surgeon telling him to Carol's shoes... Just his face for God's sakes! Don't tell me Noah is not a good enough actor to make the appropriate face!! ) Or something showing he is thankful to the family of the donor, even if he doesn't know them... I feel like Carter is a guy who carries 'ghosts' with him (ain't we all in some way? : , but he is so grown up and so strong now that he is totally at peace with them. And over the five episodes, there have been a little acknowledgement for almost each of them. Lucy, Greene, Gamma, Joshua... and I feel like the kidney donor could have a little spot in there in some way. And I wish there had been something more than just mentioning their names...
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 7, 2009 13:59:42 GMT -5
Let me tell you, if Benton knew about Carter losing his kid, then bringing Reese to the opening was plain cruel, lol. But I honestly don't think the writers gave it much thought one way or another. (I know I'm coming across as obsessive, but I want me some significant interaction between him and Benton, for crying out loud. I guess we got more than enough in Old Times so I won't be picky.) Anyway, I, too, would have loved to hear some emotion expressed- it seems they relied too much on Noah's body language and we're supposed to guess what he's thinking, which we can, but still... Well, I don't think that saying "a medical student was killed" can be considered bringing up Lucy's ghost. In fact the only ghost I really felt brought up was Greene's and Joshua's--- and that only by Kem. Carter had a speech to make and it wouldn't make sense for him to go into how he's feeling, the glimpse we got from Noah's face is wonderful and tells us the world, but would it kill them to write some sort of reference to Carter's emotional state in the finale? Is he off the painkillers? is he happy, is he depressed? is he going to go home and commit suicide like Carol in the pilot? Also: rewatching the pilot and picked up that - Carter's instructions on how to insert an IV are word-to-word the exact same instructions that Benton gives him. They're also pretty similar to how he teaches Deb to insert an IV in another season 1 episode
- The pilot had plenty of weather references, first snowing and then raining, and talking about that crazy Chicago weather- raining in March. And in this one, wasn't Morris talking about how scientists who predict global warming should spend April in Chicago. CLOSE ENOUGH!
- The scene with everyone waiting outside for the ambulances isn't from the pilot but it's definitely from another season 1 episode. Again, close enough.
- In the pilot, Mark Greene's having marriage issues... and he's considering taking a private practice position, only to realize that he can't give up the ER. And so he chooses the ER over his marriage. *cough* *hint* *nudge*
- Almost none of the cases in the pilot, including Carol, got any "closure". When the episode ends you have no idea what's going on with anyone, only that another day of fighting begins. That's pretty much the same here.
Also, I've seen it mentioned, but how is Carter's line "you coming, dr. Greene?" an allusion to the pilot? I didn't hear it said at any point in the pilot.
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Post by claired80 on Apr 7, 2009 15:05:04 GMT -5
Yeah.. if there hadn't been "What we do" and Carter's enigmatic speech at the end, how many lines did Noah actually get that weren't either just funny or plain neutral? Explaining why he is in renal failure was just factual, then turned into a joke. Zero words about carrying someone's else kidney in him... Just the speech about Joshua in the finale, he really didn't have much to say at all! In the first episode, with the mushroom elixir guy, he says "it's all about mistakes". Are we supposed to read in that that he thinks he made a mistake by leaving the ER? And if you remember that the song that was playing in "The show must go on", while Carter is in the bar watching pictures of him, was "I have the right to be wrong...", that could sound like they are trying to say that his life is in the ER and he made a mistake by leaving... I feel like there could be other things like that to read here and there, but it's all so not clear! And as you said, I don't imagine the writers put so much thoughts into it... All in all, it feels too enigmatic and not consistent... So much was just factual. Did they think about it a bit that Carter was back on Valentine's day (I don't think they showed him once on a Valentine's Day since season 6... )? Or was just the date supposed to give us a chill? Another thing I could have liked to see discussed. Not much needed, but maybe just Benton being the one convincing him before the surgery that he should accept narcotics in post-op. Or is it so clear for everybody that there's no problem at all and Carter shouldn't even blink when he has to take fentanyl? Really, they had many many occasions within the 5 episodes to talk about Carter's past, have him reflect on it a bit, but nope... nothing came out. And who knows? maybe that was their treat for the 'long time fans'. Only if you've followed Carter for a long time can you react when hearing "Valentine's Day", "Fentanyl"... Maybe they didn't want to shove it in our faces... That's true. I didn't realize. Good catch . Yeah! I've read it everywhere: "...exactly like in the pilot!...". Ah? Where?
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 7, 2009 15:53:07 GMT -5
I think the speech in "What We Do" makes it pretty obvious how much he loves the ER and doesn't want to leave it again. I wouldn't go as far as to say he thinks he's made a mistake in leaving, but it's obvious that he finally found where he belongs. You know what? I didn't even realize that he was back on V-day! I'm glad they didn't point anything out about the freaky date coincidence- it would be completely unrealistic to dwell on it, and they never mentioned anything about V-day since season 6, so why start now. But it sure puts a darker spin on the entire episode, and makes it so much more interesting to imagine what's going through Carter's head. I can see the rationale behind not having Carter get too emotional and discuss his past- really because he doesn't have anyone to discuss it WITH, you know, we haven't seen any significant interaction with anyone because he doesn't have anyone significant in his life. Again, it's made painfully clear that he's on his own. I think we were supposed to interpret the speech in What We Do as a sign of acceptence of his medical condition, or maybe it's supposed to show that he's dealing with things by not dealing with them, if you know what I mean. As a matter of fact, I think it would have been weird for Carter to refuse painkillers after surgery. It's been what, 9 years? And we're talking major surgery. I think it's very understandable that he wouldn't even hesitate. Maybe we're supposed to see it as an indication that he's now in a place where he's not in danger of slipping back to his old habits... If that's really the case, then kudos to the writers because those points are so fine, you have to be a certified fanatic to pick them up. In fact I'm pretty sure the Fentanyl reference was there just for that purpose. They could have used any post-op drug name, for that matter. And then of course it's possible (almost probable) that we're over-analyzing it and the writers are just lazy and have bad memory.
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Post by Raffy on Apr 7, 2009 16:24:47 GMT -5
Will we spend the rest of our life looking for signs? Do they spare us this toruture and make a feature movie to wrap all the unclocluded ends? Yes and no.
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 7, 2009 16:30:31 GMT -5
Nah, probably just the next few days until the depression lifts and we can move on with our lives. For now I'm having too much fun trying to convince myself that the final few episodes had some sort of meaning and were more than a cheap attempt to gain some viewers before the show goes off the air. Wait, why yes? What do you know that I don't? I thought we've established that there's no spin-off...
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Post by Raffy on Apr 7, 2009 16:49:47 GMT -5
Sorry!! I should have ponited out the "Yes" was the "ironic" answer for my first question and No was the "serious" answer for my second question . I don't think there will be a spin-off, well I hope that .....because I'm sure a spin-off would be all about Stamos But I also think a feature movie could solve all our questions....even if I don't think I want all the questions solved because I'm scared of TPTB answers....right now I can imagine my finale at least and nobody can ruin it
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 7, 2009 16:53:04 GMT -5
Oh, phew! Got me worried for a moment. LOL you know what, that's very true.
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Post by claired80 on Apr 7, 2009 17:12:34 GMT -5
Of course... . And all your points about realistic aspects made total sense. There's a so thin line between drifting a bit away from total realism and looking like lazy writers who didn't do their research... Mmmm.. maybe not even sure. I've read somewhere that morphine is nephrotoxic, and not Fentanyl, so they tend to give more easily Fentanyl after kidney problems... Maybe the only persons on set who did their research were the real doctors. Anyway, I actually think too that the Fentanyl reference wasn't there as a coincidence. Not Valentine's Day either... I really feel like it was little nods for the long-time fans. Just as all the little references to the pilot. That, and being in a hurry to finish the scripts...
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Post by spaceyume on Apr 7, 2009 21:37:12 GMT -5
Stoic Carter Seriously, I want to cry for it. It's crime, you know. Kem, it's crime.
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Post by Raffy on Apr 8, 2009 2:05:29 GMT -5
Indeed I didn't have a pilot dejavu but I thought it sounds like the Susan's line at end of Season 2 finale: while Carter is wearing his labcoat (the one which Benton gave him as present for his graduation) Susan says something like "Dr Carter, are you coming"....I have to watch it again
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 8, 2009 2:25:13 GMT -5
I really thought that was it, but not exactly. She just says "dr Carter!" twice. I mean, the general message is the same, but not in those exact same words. And it's so sad that I have that episode on standby... Almost done downloading S3, too, I'ma have to watch it, to make sure there aren't any, uh, references that we're missing.
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Post by darksparrow on Apr 18, 2009 15:40:37 GMT -5
I have a really random (and probably kind of dumb) question which I'm sure you guys will be able to help me out with. I was rewatching the finale for the 100th time and I noticed for the first time that when Carter's making the speech, there is a "CGH" sign on the microphone stand. As in County General Hospital. Which makes me wonder, how exactly IS the Carter center supposed to be connected to County? Because Weaver was asking at some point whether Carter would be able to "get funding for the county to staff the center". But I didn't think it was 'the county' as in 'the hospital'... So is it supposed to be an extention to county, rather than a seperate medical facility? Because that is actually kind of sweet. It's one less question- if the center's a part of county, then Carter will in fact stay in county, one way or the other.
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Post by claired80 on Apr 18, 2009 16:21:44 GMT -5
I was always under the impression that it was a part of County. In season 11, Carter met with Anspaugh on the construction site, then was at a meeting with Weaver talking about the funding for the Center, in which Carter announces to Weaver that the Carter foundation will pay for the entire construction, but he then wants to be able to name the Center himself (and thus the reference to Joshua).
I don't know if it was ever said clearly, but the fact that the construction was discussed at County always made me think that the Carter Center was an aisle of CGH, not an independent center.
And yep, it means that Carter is now forever part of County ;D! Sweet indeed...
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